X.org calls for the removal of the of the entire FSF BoD

Tue Mar 30 22:58:07 UTC 2021

On Tue, 2021-03-30 at 01:16 +0100, Sérgio Basto wrote:
On Mon, 2021-03-29 at 10:20 +1000, Peter Hutterer wrote:
> Hi Roman
> 
> On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 07:29:26PM +0100, Roman Gilg wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 7:46 PM Harry Wentland <
> > harry.wentland at amd.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On 2021-03-24 2:16 p.m., Roman Gilg wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 5:56 PM Lyude Paul <lyude at redhat.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Hello. As many of you are already likely aware, yesterday
> > > > > Richard M. Stallman
> > > > > rejoined the Board of Directors for the Free Software
> > > > > Foundation. This is an
> > > > > incredibly disappointing decision, one which runs contrary to
> > > > > the values that
> > > > > the X.org and freedesktop.org communities are built-upon.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Richard M. Stallman, or RMS for short, has an infamously well
> > > > > documented history
> > > > > of causing problems both for the FSF, it's associated
> > > > > projects, and open source
> > > > > as a whole. On numerous occasions he's exhibited seriously
> > > > > inappropriate
> > > > > behavior and views that are transphobic, ableist, and
> > > > > misogynist among many
> > > > > other things that are wholly unacceptable and which have no
> > > > > place in the open
> > > > > source community. In doing so he's set a dangerous and
> > > > > irresponsible precedence
> > > > > for the open source community that has tarnished its
> > > > > reputation for ages.
> > > > > 
> > > > > As well, the board for the Free Software Foundation must also
> > > > > be held
> > > > > accountable for his actions and presence back on the board.
> > > > > While RMS himself is
> > > > > a huge problem, he would not be able to hold a place on the
> > > > > FSF BoD without the
> > > > > board being complacent with his behavior and allowing him to
> > > > > return. This is
> > > > > also part of a long recurring pattern with the FSF board
> > > > > encouraging RMS's
> > > > > behavior and refusing to hold him accountable. It is not
> > > > > enough for RMS to step
> > > > > down again, the entire board of directors must step down.
> > > > > 
> > > > > It is for these reasons that the X.org foundation's Board of
> > > > > Directors have
> > > > > overwhelmingly voted to join in the call for the FSF's Board
> > > > > of Directors to
> > > > > step down, and additionally for RMS to be removed from all
> > > > > leadership positions
> > > > > including the GNU project. You can find our endorsement of
> > > > > this along with more
> > > > > information here:
> > > > 
> > > > I assume you think it's righteous what you do. But cancelling
> > > > oddballs
> > > > like RMS for voicing unusual and sometimes disturbing opinions
> > > > is not
> > > > how you spur creative thinking and progress. On the opposite
> > > > you will
> > > > demolish any open platform for discourse and collaboration or
> > > > if
> > > > necessary honest critique. RMS reminds me of Sokrates who had
> > > > to drink
> > > > the hemlock cup for wrong-think and speak.
> > > > 
> > > > And with your absolutistic take on political correctness you
> > > > ensure
> > > > that it becomes even more difficult for people from lower
> > > > social
> > > > classes and non-western cultures to join established open
> > > > source
> > > > projects like X.Org, as they will most often feel alienated by
> > > > it.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > Thanks for respectfully sharing your opinion.
> > 
> > Hi Harry,
> > 
> > thanks for your respectful reply, too. :)
> > 
> > > In my humble opinion it is exactly for the reasons of inclusion
> > > that the
> > > large majority of the X.Org board supports the open letter to the
> > > FSF.
> > > I've personally not experienced that a larger proportion of
> > > people from
> > > lower social classes and non-western cultures express toxic
> > > behavior and
> > > views. Rather the opposite.
> > 
> > My immediate evidence is like yours rather anecdotally. I gathered
> > this impression from conversations with people in my rural
> > community
> > without higher education and back when I was at university with
> > fellow
> > students from Eastern Europe or Muslim countries. In these
> > conversations I usually morphed quickly into being the left-leaning
> > progressive defending the rights of gays, women, refugees and so on
> > while the political opinion of my discussion partner ranged from
> > social exclusion to genocide.
> > 
> > For a statistical view you could take a look at something like [1].
> > Similar statistics are most certainly available for other social
> > topics like women rights or other regions outside of the western
> > hemisphere, but I haven't looked them up. Of course even if my
> > anecdotal evidence correlates with a statistical difference, that
> > doesn't mean every individual from such a region or social class
> > shares these views.
> > 
> > [1] 
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam#Public_opinion_among_Muslims
> > 
> > > In an effort to encourage the largest pool of contributors to
> > > open-source, no matter the social class, place of origin, sexual
> > > orientation, or any of a myriad of other factors that people like
> > > to
> > > discriminate upon it is important we make everyone feel
> > > comfortable to
> > > participate. At times this includes the unpleasant task of
> > > calling out
> > > those that are doing the opposite.
> > 
> > I agree that everybody should feel comfortable to participate, but
> > this includes people with conservative viewpoints, often from poor
> > families or from cultures that did not yet fully go through the
> > last
> > 50 years of sexual revolution in the West. What is a huge pool of
> > potential contributors and is also morally the right thing to do as
> > it
> > enables social mobility and racial inclusion.
> > 
> > How this can be done such that on the other side also sexual
> > minorities feel safe is not an easy question to answer. But I am
> > sure
> > it is not done through silencing the voices of either side of this
> > social divide.
> > 
> > Yesterday I read some post on Reddit about the RMS pandemonium and
> > it
> > included a link to a Twitter post by Leah Rowe. I applauded her
> > genius
> > self-description in one of the follow-ups tweets as a SJD, a Social
> > Justice Diplomat, instead of a SJW [2]. I believe this is the right
> > approach to furthering acceptance and social inclusion of sexual
> > minorities and still allow people with conflicting opinions to feel
> > comfortable in our community, which includes them being able to
> > participate in the public discourse without fear of social
> > stigmatization.
> > 
> > This is all only about RMS sharing some controversial opinions
> > online
> > though. There was also criticism of his behavior in social circles.
> > I
> > can't say much about that as I don't know him personally and I'm
> > always sceptical when personal experiences and hearsay is used in
> > the
> > public court against somebody else. In any case such personal
> > issues
> > are not something that should be dealt with on an institutional
> > level
> > in my opinion. Anecdotes like him handing out not so subtle
> > "pleasure
> > cards" or staring at someone's wife's tits during dinner do make
> > him
> > look like a person with poor social skills and insufficient control
> > of
> > his sexual impulses but I find it to be equally weird trying to
> > deal
> > with such peculiarities in a public setting like Twitter and now in
> > this petition on GitHub.
> 
> Just a few comments I'd like to add here:
> 
> The context of the open letter is RMS being reinstated to the board
> of the
> Free Software Foundation, one of the most visible organisations in
> the FOSS
> space. This context is particularly important, it's not about RMS as
> a
> private person and the the letter explicitly calls for "Richard M.
> Stallman
> to be removed from all leadership positions".
> 
> From my understanding of the timeline so far: RMS has had decades of
> questionable behaviour, some of which was an open secret well before
> 2019.
> His comments on pedophaelia in 2019 led to the first outcry and him
> being
> removed from the FSF board. Note that these comments were merely the
> final
> straw, they are, as Lyude said in her email, merely the tip of the
> iceberg.
> There are many accounts of inappropriate behaviour and these accounts
> range
> from co-workers to even long-term friends of his. IMO we can
> reasonably
> assume that a good subset of those are accurate. Stallman has not, to
> my
> knowledge, denied any.
> 

"For me, that is the key point ,  merely the tip of the iceberg"  where
is the iceberg ? 
"we can reasonably assume that a good subset of those are accurate" so
you admit that can have inaccurate info ? 

This type of initiatives will only divide the community and weaken it,
as the proprietary software companies want, like Microsoft and other
the like it . 

I will cancel my registration bye 

> 
> Many of those incidents, were they to happen at an X.Org conference
> (or any
> other org with a similar CoC), would result in immediate removal from
> the
> conference.
> 
> So, and now back to the context of the letter. RMS is and will always
> be one
> of the most prominent and visible people in the free software
> community. But
> that is not the same as acknowledging that he should be in a formal
> leadership position. The position of a formal leader is that they
> represent
> the community and reflect the type of person the community members
> should,
> in general, aspire to be. Stallman is very definitely not that
> person.
> 
> Cheers,
>    Peter
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-- 
Sérgio M. B.